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 Post subject: People forget what 'trolling' really is
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:49 pm 
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Probably the most accurate description of 'trolling' in my opinion and sadly is the one that people tend to skew

What I mean is click my damn words ok

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 Post subject: Re: People forget what 'trolling' really is
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:38 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: People forget what 'trolling' really is
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:20 am 
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I think this attitude, or at least its prevalence online, started with internet trolls. And that’s a shame, because trolling used to be pretty funny and almost entirely harmless. Trolling, despite the modern usage, does not mean “the act of pissing somebody off and laughing about their anger.” It is “the act of pissing somebody off BASED ON SOMETHING COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS and laughing about their MISPLACED anger.”


I can agree on that acting like complete [filtered] is not trolling, that's just being an [filtered].
But I will not take the act of trolling in defense and agree on that it's something almost completely harmless.
The one baiting is still "intentionally" trying to piss people off and if the anger was "intentionally" triggered by the baiter, he still get the moron stamp no matter the subject or comedical results.
Yah, that was an oppinion. :idea:



tl;dr version: Implyng trolling was ever a game to begin with.

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Last edited by Duskleaf on Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: People forget what 'trolling' really is
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:50 am 
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I am unsure of what the posts responding to my topic are supposed to be trying to say, but I assume they are to attempt to bait me and cause me to respond in such a way that eventually, I'll end up getting 'trolled'; while I know I happen to be biting what happens to be rather poorly concealed bait, I may as well do it to showcase an example. I may be reading too deep into either post made, but people will do that; after all, it's the internet, after all. Someone's going to bite that bait, and I suppose I shall do that here, despite the fact that I know all too well that someone's probably going to pull the 'you mad? You've been trolled~' card on me at some point within the near future. Fair enough; it only shows how misused the word has gotten. While it is true that this 'definition' of 'trolling' may be completely wrong as well, it is what I believe to be the right 'definition', if only because it causes both parties a chance to laugh at what occurred, rather than one person laughing at other party's misery.

No, Whywolf, I do not have a 'problem' as your picture claims I may have; rather, I'm quite curious as to why you think I have a 'problem' in the first place. Do you think the 'tone' in my words may have given off the vibe that I was troubled by the fact that people don't know what true 'trolling' is? Is that what you think I have a 'problem' with? That is not the case. I'm not bothered by that at all. What I am bothered, however, is that people think 'trolling' is equal to 'being a complete [filtered]' to someone else, and that's not fun at all, for other people witnessing the act and for the person you're 'trolling'. Circle-jerking isn't funny, either, and is only more hurtful in the end result.

There is no problem that I have with 'trolling', merely curiosity as I wonder, why do people use the word troll out of context? Of course, there is no definite answer that I'm going to get, and answers will vary between people, with some answers being far more agreeable than others. Perhaps it's better that way. It only raises up more questions, however, that are unable to be answered. Unfortunate.

Duskleaf, no, I do not think this is a 'game'. I am going to go off on a tangent here; while I do know you often make silly posts, I had hoped you had the sense to realize that this topic of mine wasn't intended to be silly at all. I'm not insulting you, rather, I merely thought that some intelligent and pleasant conversation would occur, especially since I know you have made very good posts before. I realize that most of what I do was 'trolling', but I also have the sense to know when a post is serious or not. Forgive me, please. I know you probably don't mean any harm, but there is not much information I can gather right now that your post was constructive and well-thought, and, in contrast, much information of you poking fun as to my original post. I am going to assume you will make a slightly more serious post once you read this; I am sorry for that.

However, moving on; let us assume that I do, indeed, think this is a 'game'. Where does the 'game' begin? Does it start with one person deciding to make fun of another person by stating something that offends the other party? Where does it go from there? Can the other party back off, or perhaps simply not respond at all? No, they cannot; the person initiating the 'game' often chooses to begin the 'game' in such a way that the other party is doomed to failure, no matter what course of action they take. As such, 'trolling' no longer becomes funny; it becomes full of banter that is hurtful and not at all pleasant.

If, indeed, the posts are merely to 'rustle my jimmies' or some other form of saying 'you mad?', I'm merely going to leave this 'too long, didn't read' (because I know someone isn't going to read the entirety of my post, despite how short it is) stating a rather bold remark from me.

tl;dr Try harder to get a rise out from me.

I do wish for some opinions to bounce around, however, I'd rather wish that they are regarding the topic at hand.

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 Post subject: Re: People forget what 'trolling' really is
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:04 am 
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Terranova wrote:

I do wish for some opinions to bounce around, however, I'd rather wish that they are regarding the topic at hand.


Added an oppinion to my old post and context to the picture, the reation was more of aimed at the source text, not your thread or attempt to start a debate.
I'm sorry if I have cause confusion and, yes, I read your wall of text.


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 Post subject: Re: People forget what 'trolling' really is
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:07 am 
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Why do you believe trolling to be like a 'game'? Furthermore, why exactly did you make a topic about this? Trolling can be defined in so many ways that it would be impossible to determine if someone is trolling hurtfully or not, for fun or intent with malice. As you yourself have stated, it will vary between people, so it is impossible to tell.

Trolling done with the intent of having fun is often confused with trolling done for harm, so, naturally, over time, the lines between fun and harm are crossed and blended together so well that trolling eventually refers to both. This is normal, as words begin to mean other things, such as the word 'gay' (though, honestly, I'm not so sure how gay came to refer to homosexuals).

I'm not particularly sure what else to say as it is late here and I am tired, so I shall make a more detailed post later. I will say, though, that trolling done with either intention is also usually a circle-jerk in itself, as successful trolling is usually done with, at most, a small group of people, and not community-wide.

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 Post subject: Re: People forget what 'trolling' really is
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:09 am 
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This thread, I like it.

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 Post subject: Re: People forget what 'trolling' really is
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:58 am 
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Found this on Wikipedia. : The origin of the English noun troll in the standard sense of ugly dwarf or giant dates to 1610 and comes from the Old Norse word 'troll' meaning giant or demon.[18] The word evokes the trolls of Scandinavian folklore and children's tales, where they are at times beings bent on mischief and wickedness.

Using it as slang seems it started back in '72 by the military for " Trolling for MIG fighters " as to find them and give them trouble, but others also point to later dates.

I do remember hearing it in term " Why do you always just Troll for trouble " by one of my teachers in the mid 80's to a always acting up classmate who was always hell bent on disrupting our lessons and also reading it in several novels as well long before the internet came back in the 70's and 80's.

Terranova wrote:
[color=#0000FF]I am unsure of what the posts responding to my topic are supposed to be trying to say, but I assume they are to attempt to bait me and cause me to respond in such a way that eventually, I'll end up getting 'trolled'; while I know I happen to be biting what happens to be rather poorly concealed bait, I may as well do it to showcase an example.


In every thread about trolling, I have seen attempts by others to troll the thread's creator.

On my other game Star Trek Online, someone did something similar to here, it was a serious discussion, but it got deadly viscous by trolls and what we call " Fleet Trolls " as in clans made up of trolls going around and trolling in forums and ingame a way that they are never banned, because they back each other up or are dead sneaky.
Sure ignore them, then you get a 24 hour chat ban, because Perfect World has a crappy auto ban system that they abuse by logging a fake abuse complaint by 5 other members to get you suspended from talking. So no one talks in region chat anymore. We call it The Dead Zone now.

A system that was supposed to stop troll's was it's self first nerfed by trolls about 18 months ago and now abandoned by players due to trolls and Perfect World never doing a thing. They ignored it and then released a statement when complaints raged and went critical and when splashed on every game site on how it was broken and flawed : " The Auto Ban System is working as intended, and will stay in place. "
Players use that now to troll Perfect World. As in someone says something is wrong with a NCP or mission and someone will always say " Working as intended. "

The chat channel is still there, but is barely or now days, never used because of trolls and the auto ban. The game sadly now is sometimes called a " Anti Social game. " because no one will speak in region due to the auto ban being abused by trolls.

To me it's epic irony in seeing the system was to stop trolls, but ended up not only helping them, but feeding them. And still does. Perfect World still refuses to do anything about it.

If anyone asked me, I'd say that it's the most powerful weapon ever created. It can cause some to suicide, bring down government leaders and destroy friendships.............with just a few words.



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 Post subject: Re: People forget what 'trolling' really is
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:24 am 
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Icey_Flyer wrote:
Why do you believe trolling to be like a 'game'? Furthermore, why exactly did you make a topic about this? Trolling can be defined in so many ways that it would be impossible to determine if someone is trolling hurtfully or not, for fun or intent with malice. As you yourself have stated, it will vary between people, so it is impossible to tell.

Trolling done with the intent of having fun is often confused with trolling done for harm, so, naturally, over time, the lines between fun and harm are crossed and blended together so well that trolling eventually refers to both. This is normal, as words begin to mean other things, such as the word 'gay' (though, honestly, I'm not so sure how gay came to refer to homosexuals).

I'm not particularly sure what else to say as it is late here and I am tired, so I shall make a more detailed post later. I will say, though, that trolling done with either intention is also usually a circle-jerk in itself, as successful trolling is usually done with, at most, a small group of people, and not community-wide.


My computer died and I couldn't make a response.

Don't you backsass me with questions that should logically be already answered for you.

As for the 'lines' of fun and harm being crossed together...

Can you honestly tell me that you haven't teased a friend in some way or other? Now, supposedly, in a hypothetical situation, they may have taken it seriously, to which you would have (hopefully) apologized for, but wasn't the original intent of your hypothetical teasing for fun? I'm pretty damn sure that you've teased someone before. In addition, suppose that someone was nearby to witness your teasing. They do not know that the two of you are friends, and so they point out that you're 'trolling', with the intent to hurt another person.

Obviously, this is not the case, and your attempts to tell them otherwise go unheeded. You are now labeled a 'troll' despite the fact that your teasing wasn't meant to do harm.


In regards to what you say, Crashbang, honestly, the system implemented in the game you speak of is just dumb and very poorly thought out. I wouldn't call those people who abuse the game mechanics as 'trolls'. I'd simply call them bullies for abusing the auto-ban system on unsuspecting people.

Trolling isn't bad, in fact, it can actually be funny and enlightening for some people.

Some people, however, happen to bring together 'trolls' with 'bullies', and there is a fine difference between the two.

Or maybe there isn't; think of it as you will.

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 Post subject: Re: People forget what 'trolling' really is
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:50 pm 
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This man speaks really fast (durrrr), still has some good points thou.


Will be quoting something from ytube comment section.

Quote:

Trolls are the Internet manifestation of a "douchebag" in my opinion. Someone who waste their time trying to spark anger from somebody for their own amusement, without any real purpose.

Trolls are mostly prevalent because of the fact that they can get away with it. They like that the person they're pissing off can't hurt them physically or face them in real life; they're mostly likely cowards when it comes to real world social interaction.

They're those kids who throw eggs at your house and run away; the only difference being that they're on the internet so the likelihood of you catching them is very low.


And some more of my thoughts on the subject.

Trolling is only done by selfish means and to amuse the troll only. It is intentional, not something you do passively and in complete unawareness. Doing so would make you something else, perhaps sometimes a genuine and/or ignorant idiot, but perhaps also someone with a healthy valid point of argument.

Some trolls will argue that their trolling is justified. Here is a question; When is acting like a douchebag ever justified?
The end game of a troll is never to support the growth of a healthy argument but to piss people off by questioning their logic in people arguments.
So if you participate in an argument only because you wish to push people into irritation, you're a still a douchebag.

There's also a line between what is trolling and what is cyber-bullying, harassment, stalking, insulting, etc...
It's simply doesn't make it trolling anymore.

At the end of the day, if you wouldn't say it in real life to a persons face, don't say it on the internet.


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