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 Post subject: Shazbawt Sparkplay Shoutbox Log
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:32 am 
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Main: Yon Fildibeck
Alt: Grande Gear
Alt: Aaron Blackfox
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This is a log of the conversation with an ex-Sparkplay employee, Shazbawt Sparkplay, that occurred yesterday in the Shoutbox.

Thanks greatly to Grethnefar for reversing the text top-down for easier reading. Enjoy!

Code:
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:26 pm ≫   Shazbawt? Are you still watching chat? I have a couple questions.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:38 pm ≫   Hi
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:38 pm ≫   Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:15 pm ≫ indeed. Hey Shazbawt? You use to work for Sparkplay? - Yes
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:39 pm ≫   I was with SPM from about 3 months before the first FGTs until the end
Volvox ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:41 pm ≫   I remember you, Shazbawt. Nice to see you're still around. ^^
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:42 pm ≫   Still around, I check up with the community (that's left) from time to time
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:45 pm ≫   I am happy to see progress being made on EE tho, even after the shutdown.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:46 pm ≫   Drew is no doubt working hard to bring a much better feel to the game
Volvox ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:47 pm ≫   Yeah, gameplay was rather . . . lacking. I trust Piggy can do better than what we had before.
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:48 pm ≫   Those are some nice screenshots, it's cool to see the internal workings of the game, not something you get to see very often.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:48 pm ≫   There were many internal decisions that I didn't agree on reguarding gameplay mechanics and design.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:49 pm ≫   It became very apparent when more people started playing, and thus is why we changed lead designers
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:49 pm ≫   Too little too late tho :(
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:49 pm ≫   I have a ton of screenshots, but since the game is in re-development, I can't really post them
Volvox ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:49 pm ≫   Yeah, that saying is unfortunately applicable here. D:
Volvox ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:50 pm ≫   Oh, and Grethnefar, thanks a bunch for Ronath's profile info!
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:50 pm ≫   Heh, no problem. Sorry I couldn't find your other one.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:51 pm ≫   Piggy is an avid gamer, he knew what needed to be changed. We both did, and unfortunatly neither of us were in a position to bring about change. I was in the process of being moved onto the design staff right as the collapse hit us.
Volvox ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:51 pm ≫   Eh, not your fault G. I know he was in the Nomads Clan, but I couldn't remember if I took him out later or not. Now I know! :D
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:52 pm ≫   When did you start working for SPM?
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:53 pm ≫   May of 09?
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:54 pm ≫   maybe a little earlier, It was a while ago
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:54 pm ≫   Ah, I see. It looked like they had so much in development, even way back before the closed beta, that was never quite finished.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:56 pm ≫   Well, a lot of the development was being changed into reworking the game to suit a larger audience
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:56 pm ≫   Our original lead designer had issues breaking out of the mold of "nitch" crowds (if that makes sense)
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:57 pm ≫   I think our largest obstacle was not being able to support the number of players we wanted to on the server
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:59 pm ≫   So they had to halt development in later stages to re-make the earlier ones?
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:00 pm ≫   I am not sure if you remember, but the modifications to stats and armor would be an example.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:01 pm ≫   That was a massive undertaking design and development side
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:01 pm ≫   Oh hey, I was just replying to your message Shazbawt. :) And I find you're here answering stuff. Shoulda checked.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:04 pm ≫   Yeah, I can imagine some of your screenshots could be a problem since the game is still a commodity for Sankando and presumably for Turnout sometime after that.
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:04 pm ≫   Yeah, I was just wondering how widespread the revamp effort was. It's a shame they had to scrap so work though. Understandable to bring in more players.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:04 pm ≫   Yah, I'll answer stuff the best I can about the past. That being said, I am not working on the current version so I have no info there.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:04 pm ≫   That's okay, we're sorta retro-tastic here anyway.
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:05 pm ≫   I know I didn't realize just how bad the problem was until we heard the news that SPM was shutting down.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:05 pm ≫   Yah, the ship was sinking long before the public knew
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:06 pm ≫   We were working frantically trying to keep things floating, bad decisions in the initial conception and planning cause that
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:09 pm ≫   What happened last April? It seemed there was a huge employment shift, some left and others joined. Is that when SPM fully realized they needed a new direction?
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:10 pm ≫   April was the shift in ideals. We ramped up staffing by around 50% and brought on a new lead designer.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:10 pm ≫   I found this in my archive. I was taken by the costume, so I snapshotted you. http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/8494/66800825.png
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:11 pm ≫   Certain features that were only in conception got put into the (we will do this when we can) pile. Like henges
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:15 pm ≫   Did they ever discuss revamping the engine as well for performance reasons? Or was it just a matter of gamplay content and concepts?
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:15 pm ≫   And certain things got ramped up heavily, like PVP and redesign of newbie areas
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:16 pm ≫   The combat system was getting a rework as well, moving away from the strange resource system we had to a much simpler energy/mana based system
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:16 pm ≫   PvP was probably something that inevitably needed to be addressed, but I felt like the company was done a great disservice when certain segments of the playerbase emphasized its importance.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:17 pm ≫   Oh, were they dumping Might/Will and going with a flat mana system?
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:17 pm ≫   The system worked like a standard energy mechanic anyway, it just felt and looked clunky
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:18 pm ≫   I personally don't believe that PVP should have been worked on before revamping of quests and zones, but that wasn't my call
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:18 pm ≫   I think you were right on that one.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:18 pm ≫   PVP sapped vital time and resources.
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:18 pm ≫   Yeah, Bastion was impressive for its size. Much more attention to detail there. I liked the Might/Will system, I just thought the skills needed work and variety. Lots of them had good concepts but were limited by actual effectiveness, cooldowns and cost and such.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:19 pm ≫   I'm an outsider, but I personally believed that was the pivotal moment that put EE in the grave.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:19 pm ≫   We also had a serious issue with our ISP not supplying us enough bandwidth to handle the player population (which could have been much larger if proper marketing had been implemented).
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:19 pm ≫   So that was the bottleneck. c_c
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:20 pm ≫   The lag certainly did put some people off the game. Especially one that looked like it didn't require big hardware with the simplified art design.
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:20 pm ≫   PvP made sense though, an effort to give players something else to do besides questing and grinding. Maybe a gamble, but they tried.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:21 pm ≫   Fair enough. It wasn't a bad implimentation, but it was disheartening that as soon as it appeared, the number of people using it was easily a tenth the clamor for it.
Volvox ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:21 pm ≫   Well, it seems then that the lag wasn't just my computer! :D
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:22 pm ≫   Definitely a ?_? moment.
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:22 pm ≫   Heh, sometimes the players aren't always right.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:23 pm ≫   Well, we're not a unified group of people.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:23 pm ≫   Some of us are pretty diametric.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:24 pm ≫   I'm still very intrigued by the building mechanics.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:25 pm ≫   As noted in my message, some of it looks very similar to Second Life's handles.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:26 pm ≫   Back
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:26 pm ≫   Though that's probably just an artifact of any 3d game.
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:26 pm ≫   Lag and bandwidth was a problem everywhere as far as I could tell, both the client and servers had faults. With the memory leaks and glitches, it seemed like a ton of optimizations were in order.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:26 pm ≫   Well, in reguards to the 3d engine
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:26 pm ≫   Development choices early on ended up having us use the OGRE 3D engine
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:27 pm ≫   Torchlight uses that one, I know...
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:27 pm ≫   Yes torchlight does use OGRE3d
Jackuul ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:27 pm ≫   Hi Shaz!
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:27 pm ≫   but the problem is, when you run OGRE3D using a directx plugin from within a browser you use a lot more processing power
Jackuul ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:28 pm ≫   Welcome to EEF :D
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:28 pm ≫   EE ran flawlessly when used outside of the browser (standalone launcher)
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:28 pm ≫   I used the standalone dedicatedly.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:28 pm ≫   I noticed the diff.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:28 pm ≫   And ran even better after all the assets were downloaded (which I pushed for from the moment I joined the team)
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:28 pm ≫   Good call.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:29 pm ≫   Minimize bandwidth and speed access to resources.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:29 pm ≫   The biggest problem was, marketing a 3dMMO for a browser in a market where players are not going to have the systems to run such a game...then put it into a browser using a sloppy plugin
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:29 pm ≫   was bound to cause huge issues. And it did.
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:29 pm ≫   I never used the browser plugin because of those issues, it was noticably slower on my old computer.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:30 pm ≫   Sebkha used to note to me that the whole 'browser game' tag was somewhat disingenuous for EE, but figured it was a marketing ploy to get it in front of people.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:32 pm ≫   There's a lurking Piggypops. Though for the record he's never once replied in Shoutbox. Matt's done it once.
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:32 pm ≫   The standalone client was kinda nice, but sometimes wished it had fullscreen support. Running windowed was another slight performance drop.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:32 pm ≫   I didn't even see this box until I accidentally scrolled down
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:33 pm ≫   Yeah. probably get noticed at the top.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:33 pm ≫   The problem is it's sandwiched between the bottom and the top.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:33 pm ≫   So you can WHIZ right past it.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:34 pm ≫   There is also the problem with a majority of graphics cards not recognizing a 3d application running in windowed mode and doesn't ramp up the GPU speed to compensate for a 3d application
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:34 pm ≫   Cause, yeah, no one seriously runs 3d games in a window. c_c
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:35 pm ≫   EE looked fairly good @ 2560x1600 resolution :)
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:35 pm ≫   I'm sure it would look even silkier and faster on now-hardware too.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:37 pm ≫   Heh, I honestly look back and wish that EE had suceeded. I miss working on MMORPGs
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:38 pm ≫   that and I really do think that it could have taken off if given enough time
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:38 pm ≫   Well probably most of the people here would agree - all the other people have long departed for other MMOs, but we're still thinking about it.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:38 pm ≫   Which is what I think PP is working hard to do in a market that would be very adopting of EE
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:39 pm ≫   I think so too. Sebkha refered to it as 'elegantly simple'. I have noticed I can't stand other MMOs because the art direction on most isn't as good as EEs was (at least for free ones).
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:39 pm ≫   For what it's worth, window mode was very helpful in browsing the forum at the same time. So in that sense I'd say window mode was a good call.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:40 pm ≫   I'm amazed EE got so far, myself. It did have an enchanting quality that I've almost never seen in other MMO's
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:40 pm ≫   EE should have integrated the forums into the game window. ;)
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:40 pm ≫   The music repeat never worked either :(
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:40 pm ≫   or integration :P
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:40 pm ≫   Music repeat?
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:41 pm ≫   background music. I am a keen supporter of immersion through music
Jackuul ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:41 pm ≫   EE would crash for me in client mode after 20-40 minutes of play. Consuming huge amounts of RAM before it finally did crash
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:41 pm ≫   EE was very unique, I enjoyed playing despite all the bugs.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:41 pm ≫   Oh. Do you mean by some sort of placible sound object that loops? Or...?
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:41 pm ≫   0.8.8 in dungeons bled memory. u_u
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:41 pm ≫   Honestly, making it to open beta is quite a feat on a very limited budget and almost no staff.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:42 pm ≫   it is a lot harder to debug a direct x application than it is a web app
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:42 pm ≫   The music. It didn't loop, it just played here and there.
Volvox ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:42 pm ≫   Unfortunate, because the music still is amazing.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:42 pm ≫   The sound engineering stuff I use for my Heartwood Tower Voice show.
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:43 pm ≫   Excess loading screens didn't help immersion much either, that's another aspect with serious room for improvement.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:43 pm ≫   you don't realize how gorgeous it is until you hear it standing alone.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:43 pm ≫   If they are able to tighten up the graphics engine, I won't even need an upgrade to play after re-release.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:43 pm ≫   I don't mind loading and instances. It's much better than having huge performance issues. I.e. Camelot lag everywhere.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:44 pm ≫   My current preoccupation has an open world with no instances, and I can't do questlines in the big cities because I go to 2fps.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:45 pm ≫   Not to mention having to flush the graphics engine every few minutes when traveling.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:49 pm ≫   That being said, I never had framerate issues in the world. Only during certain instances with a party
Smeef ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:50 pm ≫   :O just read the news about japan release
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:51 pm ≫   That did get worse in 0.8.8 for some reason. I averaged 2 hours before needing a client refresh, but it was physically impossible to complete the Rolsburg Mines in one go.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:51 pm ≫   Usually 20 mins before I'd hit chop.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:52 pm ≫   IKIMONOGATARI is probably coming out this month. They did say Spring. And Piggypops notes the Japanese do not stop for earthquake, tsuanami or nuclear disasters.
Smeef ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:52 pm ≫   lol
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:53 pm ≫   I generally ranged between 10 to 50 frames per second. Dustshore ran the smoothest but any places with more props, like Heartwood or dungeons really slowed to a crawl.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:53 pm ≫   I tend to notice even the tiniest performance issues due to the super old fallback system I'm on now.
Smeef ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:53 pm ≫   any idea on the english release?
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:53 pm ≫   No.
Smeef ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:53 pm ≫   what i thought

Smeef ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:54 pm ≫   im happy to have a chance at playing it again
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:54 pm ≫   I think the effort that went into PVP shoulda gone into Groves. But I have no idea how they were planning to impliment that.
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:54 pm ≫   The memory leaks were always present and gradually slowed down the client even if you had plenty of memory available.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:54 pm ≫   As far as the last updates leading to worse performance issues, I just figured that new shiny things were taking up more memory.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:55 pm ≫   Groves never really started development
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:55 pm ≫   That's too bad. It was the thing I was most fascinated by.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:56 pm ≫   MMOs are just starting to realize that they need different lures, and Groves seemed intriguingly different.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:56 pm ≫   The thing about PC games is, if you have an outdated PC and are barely cutting it performance wise, it's time to upgrade
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:56 pm ≫   Player housing is something every game tries to have at full release.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:56 pm ≫   I admit, a lot of that had to do with EE's immersive world.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:56 pm ≫   "Living there" appealed greatly. I wanted to social-game more on EE.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:57 pm ≫   The thought of building a home, hanging out with friends, playing co-operative games, and sometimes running adventures. That was what I was hoping for. :)
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:57 pm ≫   I don't think Henges were ever going to be a reality in the way they were originally concepted
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:57 pm ≫   Groves did promise a unique take on housing that a lot of people were looking forward to.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:58 pm ≫   the tools to move and change world objects was there
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:58 pm ≫   *groves* not henges
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:58 pm ≫   Ah.
Volvox ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:58 pm ≫   How were they originally envisioned?
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:59 pm ≫   I'm curious what extent the world could be modified by the tools. Most games have to use external building apps.
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:59 pm ≫   Yeah, that's true, but my benchmarks for performance were better looking games with higher detail, resolution, and framerates. Knowing a lot of the issues were client bugs didn't help much.
Volvox ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:59 pm ≫   Oh... XD Groves, not henges.
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:59 pm ≫   Were henges originally intended to port between towns and cities?
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:00 pm ≫   I wouldn't be using an outdated system if I had a choice. This one didn't even run EE at better than 4 fps, whereas the now gpuless system ran it passably well.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:01 pm ≫   I think the biggest performance issue was that most people thought "browser game, I can run this" and it wasn't really a browser game
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:02 pm ≫   It was a game that launched inside a browser, sure...but was a fully 3d game
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:02 pm ≫   henges were the conceptual transportation device
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:02 pm ≫   they would have probably taken you to your grove as well
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:03 pm ≫   My grove was going to be Ibiza, if an island shape were allowed. n_n
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:03 pm ≫   I did get the idea that 'browser-based' was being used purely as a selling point, though I myself wasn't aware of the precedents involved.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:04 pm ≫   I tried running the game, and it ran, and I was happy.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:04 pm ≫   yah, there was no system requirements check in the installer
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:04 pm ≫   which, I think was something that all 3d games
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:05 pm ≫   should have on their installer
Volvox ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:08 pm ≫   Yon, should I post the link for my show in the EE RP section when it's uploaded?
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:09 pm ≫   Hey Shazbawt !
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:09 pm ≫   They made progress early on though, during the closed beta when they added an option for low detail terrain. Later improvements to loading times and the Download All function were also a relief.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:09 pm ≫   Sure. I'm really interested to see your new show. :)
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:10 pm ≫   I think EE was missing a lot of things that were beginning to be taken for granted in a lot of MMO's. I personally didn't mind a whole lot, because I loved the game.
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:10 pm ≫   such as more classes Darkfyre?
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:11 pm ≫   Oh, I accepted the four class system early on. I had to, since it didn't seem at all likely that there would ever be more.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:12 pm ≫   The class design went for customizability over that.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:12 pm ≫   Which would have worked great if they had several dozen more cool, working skills/spells.
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:12 pm ≫   Shazbawt, how did you feel about PvP? I was not a fan.
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:13 pm ≫   Four classes was enough especially with the cross abilities, they just needed better skills at higher levels for more serious customization.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:13 pm ≫   Not to mention balancing stats and class-specific traits for both PvE and PvP
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:14 pm ≫   PvP wasn't worth nerfing bows, I'll say that much...
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:15 pm ≫   I would have nerfed druid armor class instead, myself.
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:15 pm ≫   Balance is always an issue with PvP though, and SPM had bigger things to worry about.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:17 pm ≫   IMO, the skills needed reworking before pvp could be truly interesting. Then maybe individual class traits
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:19 pm ≫   Honestly, there were many things that needed to be revamped
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:19 pm ≫   the UI was one of them.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:20 pm ≫   I would almost say 'prevamped', but that's just an expression of regret that further development couldn't have been done before release
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:21 pm ≫   unlike standard "box" games, a F2P game needs to be put out as soon as it is viable to make money
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:21 pm ≫   Shazbawt, how exciting for you to 'work behind the curtain' and create the entire Earth Eternal world? It's like you were playing a completely different game in some sense
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:22 pm ≫   This is true, and I've honestly never seen different.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:23 pm ≫   There is nothing better than creating worlds that people immerse themselves in.
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:23 pm ≫   Shazbawt, why did strange things happen in the instances where the horde would strangely walk on the ceiling and be in the walls and stuff?
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:24 pm ≫   Bad Pathing + Hollow structures = Interesting things happen
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:24 pm ≫   Even some of the newest MMOs have issues with pathing and mobs falling into the ground
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:24 pm ≫   It takes a whole lot of hours of work to completely fix npc mapping/pathing and clipping errors. That much I know from playing just a few 3d games.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:25 pm ≫   I think every 3d MMO has issues with PCs sticking.
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:27 pm ≫   Shazbawt, how awesome is it for you that the game world YOU created created such a vibrant, active community well beyond the game's afterlife?
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:27 pm ≫   Yeah, a combination of bad pathing and floors. It could happen to players too, but was more common with mobs since most players are smart enough to avoid walking through walls, tables, and corners.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:28 pm ≫   Smart enough, Greth? It's impossible not to run into things when you are running away or kiting mobs in a dungeon ;P
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:29 pm ≫   Not that EE had a whole lot of reason to kite enemies. Mages being able to tank and all. ;P
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:30 pm ≫   Some mages... c_c
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:30 pm ≫   LOL Yon !
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:30 pm ≫   *squishy the frog*

Silentwolf12 ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:30 pm ≫   Wow alot of people on.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:30 pm ≫   Tank as in repeatedly cast healing hand. Lol
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:30 pm ≫   Heh, point taken. But still, not having a battle strategy that's not "always run directly toward your opponent, to hell with walls" helps avoid collisions.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:31 pm ≫   Well, to be honest, I had very little to do with EE's conception. I came on much after a majority of the development work had been completed. But as someone who worked with the community from the getgo, I am glad to see that people are still waiting for the re-release. But, as a gamer myself, I understand nostalgia very well. I still hope games that I enjoyed to come back online, but sadly...unlike EE...they will not be making a return.
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:31 pm ≫   Shazbawt, seriously you had the best job in the world!! How awesome was it to create that immersive world ?
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:33 pm ≫   But yes Ronin, I do envy the team currently working on EE for Japan. I wish I had the chance they are having to continue to work on it.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:33 pm ≫   I do too. u_u
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:34 pm ≫   Being able to learn from mistakes and fix them, actually using skills at hindsight? Kind of nice.
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:34 pm ≫   Shazbawt, I wish Sparkplay had taken your advice more. It would have been a better game for it.
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:34 pm ≫   Well, with any luck TurnOut has fixed most of these issues in the downtime. I'm looking forward to an (English) release eventually.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:35 pm ≫   I got the idea that a lot of the decisions made on what was getting developed post-release in EE were based on the budget.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:36 pm ≫   I'm hoping it will be possible to eventually pursue my dream of assisting with the survival of the re-released game. :)
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:36 pm ≫   This is hopefully a hurdle that the new company can jump easily.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:36 pm ≫   Darkfyre, a good designer doesn't make the mistake of having 1 sided opinions. Making mistakes happens, but most mistakes could have been avoided by bringing in people with experience
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:37 pm ≫   I mostly meant that the new devs get the chance to fix mistakes that more or less already sank a game.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:37 pm ≫   Though actually...I wonder how many of the mistakes weren't related to theon a low budget?
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:37 pm ≫   Shazbawt, SO many people here are very excited to hear more about your stories designing the world. Thank you SO very much for posting those screenshots.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:37 pm ≫   Yon, you are helping. This community is helping. I'm here because this community is here. Piggy is sitting in chat because he knows people care deeply about this game. I have no doubt that EE will make a comback, maybe not in English at first, but it will return.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:37 pm ≫   gah, -'on a'
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:38 pm ≫   n_n
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:39 pm ≫   Shazbawt, one thing I found so funny were the floating props, like floating bushes and stuff in the game. Why did that stuff happen ?
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:39 pm ≫   Shazbawt explained earlier that initial development foundations weren't good enough for long-term goals, that revamps were later necessary to correct those mistakes.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:39 pm ≫   If you get a chance to look later, here's the shows myself and the community has been working on. http://www.youtube.com/user/heuwyn?feat ... D026668FBE
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:39 pm ≫   *shameless plug*
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:40 pm ≫   (best to start with the first, or the running gags will get lost.)
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:41 pm ≫   To answer the question about geometry, I am sure everyone is familiar with the Z axis. Well when you modify terrain in EE, the objects stay on the same Z axis location they were before the terrain is modified. These items must be manually adjusted for the terrain changes. Sometimes, when a zone has 3000 props, some items get missed.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:43 pm ≫   It is generally the art team that is responsible for making sure everything looks right ingame.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:44 pm ≫   Better for the game to be down for what I could describe as a 'redevelopment' then. I have to say I appreciate the efforts made to fix things while it was still live. Talk about an uphill battle.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:45 pm ≫   Especially what with the noise being made on the forums the whole while.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:45 pm ≫   You would have to talk to Piggy about what they are doing to the new EE
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:45 pm ≫   I know we talked long and hard about what needed to be changed while we were still working together
Grethnefar ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:47 pm ≫   Do you still talk with other former SPM employees, or have most of you moved on?
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:48 pm ≫   I don't really need to know what exactly they're doing. I know that Piggy and the others have a good grasp on things.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:49 pm ≫   Funny story, I ended up working for Zynga as a Security engineer. I was working on one of our newer games "Cityville" before launch and happened to cross paths with John Yoo (Lead designer for EE), who was also working on Cityville.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:49 pm ≫   I still try to keep in contact with some of the guys from SPM, most of us are still in the industry and working on casual browser games.
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:49 pm ≫   lol, he left zygna recently though
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:50 pm ≫   Yah, he left :(
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:50 pm ≫   ha, I bet you pushed him out the window. Don't lie. ;)
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:50 pm ≫   Office building defenestration: The new pvp scenario?
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:51 pm ≫   John was the LD that came in after the original one. He and I saw eye to eye with many of the changes that we wanted to implement.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:51 pm ≫   This industry is very fluid, I wouldn't want to throw someone out a window! Mostly because I would probably end up working with them again in the future!
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:52 pm ≫   would it have been technically possible to create Flying Mounts in Earth Eternal ?
Volvox ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:53 pm ≫   *shameless plug* Episode one of Beast Banter is on the air. viewtopic.php?f=16&t=988
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:54 pm ≫   Flying...technically, possible. I flew around EE from the sky many times. Mounts, TECHNICALLY, yes. But increasing movement speed would have been a much more viable option (aka run faster)
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:55 pm ≫   (I think one of the screenshots I uploaded was from a sky adventure)
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:55 pm ≫   Yes, some great screenshots! Thanks for posting those.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:55 pm ≫   No idea why mounts were so obsessed-over myself. I could make it all the way across europe in 15 minutes, if I remember right.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:56 pm ≫   Maybe 20.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:56 pm ≫   Not to mention that there weren't any places you actually needed to fly to get to. There was a barran plateau in DS, and the restricted areas.
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:56 pm ≫   I liked that screenshot of the "Item Action" window. Seems like a nice technical tool.
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:57 pm ≫   What did that tool do?
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:57 pm ≫   Why, back in the day, VG had caravans so that you didn't have to play constantly for a week to get to another continent. You had a team of players that 'drove' it in shifts.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:59 pm ≫   Ronin > The item ID display tool? You would have to let me know which screenshot you are refering to.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:59 pm ≫   Of course, not having fast travel is sort of dumb now.
Darkfyre ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:59 pm ≫   A dumb move rather.
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:59 pm ≫   AFK a couple of minutes guys, meeting.
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:59 pm ≫   second picture you posted
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:09 pm ≫   That's the admin item inspect tool. Shows you any data you would want about the item and give you the ability to create it. This tool was used to also generate items ingame (for GM/Dev purposes)
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:11 pm ≫   The Henges system works very similarly in the recently released game "Rift". EE just needed more of these, and travel should have been instant between them.
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:12 pm ≫   That's awesome! Did you use that to manipulate the land? Or did you use an external program to manipulate the terrain? I noticed sometimes the land didn't match up. The Henges, it seems there were a lot of destination points assigned.
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:14 pm ≫   there were not*. Sorry about that :(
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:15 pm ≫   Terrain modification was not done ingame. Only item manipulation. As for henges having not a lot of destination points, I believe there should have been more...a lot more. One for every town IMO.
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:18 pm ≫   Shazbawt, in some ways your like the Wizard of Oz creating this whole other alternate world. You're the guy behind the curtain! We really appreciate your time, patience and consideration with us tonight
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:18 pm ≫   MUCH respect of course!
Shazbawt ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:19 pm ≫   No problem guys! I'll stop in to chat when I can. Been Fun!
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:19 pm ≫   Thank you very much for your generosity. Much appreciated! Thank you sincerely.
Yon Fildibeck ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:19 pm ≫   Hope to see you again. :)
Ronin ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:20 pm ≫   ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage We're your minions Shazbawt !!
Heckran ≪ Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:21 pm ≫   I am no one's minion! I'm their follower...

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 Post subject: Re: Shazbawt Sparkplay Shoutbox Log
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:36 am 
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Of course the interesting stuff happens when I'm gone.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazbawt Sparkplay Shoutbox Log
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:35 am 
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Terranova wrote:
Of course the interesting stuff happens when I'm gone.

We carefully timed it so you couldn't insert your usual 'Pff' commentary. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Shazbawt Sparkplay Shoutbox Log
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:38 am 
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Yon Fildibeck wrote:
We carefully timed it so you couldn't insert your usual 'Pff' commentary. ;)


I couldn't 'pff' anyway, you fill up all the available space in the room so I have to struggle to breathe.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazbawt Sparkplay Shoutbox Log
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:40 am 
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Terranova wrote:
I couldn't 'pff' anyway, you fill up all the available space in the room so I have to struggle to breathe.



Me vs. Crash Bang.

Crash Bang wins.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazbawt Sparkplay Shoutbox Log
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:15 pm 
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Hey sweet! My music got some props, thanks guys! haha =) Always makes me feel warm inside. I wish I had a chance to redo some of the old music cues and continue improving the overall audio design. I'm glad so many people seemed to enjoy the music. My self being a gamer I took it very seriously to try to provide music that enhanced the game and didn't bother the player yet was very beautiful and classy when I could be.

I used a similar audio design system as WOW. Where ambient music was played on timers and it worked really well as intended! Its just I never had time or budget to properly implement the other side of that system. Which was the activate music cues like Entering lands and special area's. Like Camelot or heartwood or a special boss area etc. So it was really only half of the music system live in game. But Matt and Martin later on really heard my angle and hired me to really finish it.....sadly I didn't get to fulfill that. =(

But hey if the new EE ever comes out, [filtered] at them for more music and audio and I'd love to come back and finish what I started. ;)

I did write several new cues no one ever heard tho sadly lol. If you go to my website and listen to the EE montage reel you will hear about 6 or so new cue clips that display some of sonic sounds of area's players never explored such as Swineland and Grunes tal.

http://chasingthesunproductions.com/listen.php

Thanks for all your support guys! You are all awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazbawt Sparkplay Shoutbox Log
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:09 pm 
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Vanrey Ven wrote:
If you go to my website and listen to the EE montage reel you will hear about 6 or so new cue clips that display some of sonic sounds of area's players never explored such as Swineland and Grunes tal.


Oh man, that's some seriously awesome stuff! (especially for someone like me who absolutely adores ambient music). Thanks for sharing! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Shazbawt Sparkplay Shoutbox Log
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:11 pm 
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Jeff, glad to see you're still around. Thanks for posting that montage - I'm with Heroic in the highly positive opinion camp.

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 Post subject: Re: Shazbawt Sparkplay Shoutbox Log
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:22 pm 
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I'm so glad to see the transcript of the Shazbawt discussion. Truly appreciate his time, patience and consideration in talking to us. Very insightful, intelligent conversation which happens so rarely here. I think I just "Shaz'd" my pants with excitement!

I'm curious what kind of combat modifications Shazbawt would have preferred to implement as well as what social/community and non-combat aspects of the game might he wanted to expand and explore? I think the immersive world of Earth Eternal was ripe for possibilities to develop a kind of Sims: Medieval world for beasts.


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 Post subject: Re: Shazbawt Sparkplay Shoutbox Log
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:43 am 
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That's pretty awesome. Thanks for posting this. Shazbawt's a cool guy, and it's nice to hear about stuff from his side of things.

And I agree on the music thing, too. It was amazing. I still listen to a lot of it from time to time.


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